Interview with Dalene Higgins
In this episode, we will uncover 3 keys:
- Saving is a Game—Make It Fun
- Financial Independence Comes from Awareness, Not Just Income
- Empowering Financial Conversations Start at Home
Podcast Transcription
Episode 54: From Vision to Value: Achieve Financial Clarity for Women Entrepreneurs | Dalene Higgins
Intro
Odiva Vasell (00:32):
Welcome, my fabulous fempreneurs! I am excited for you today because we are gonna dig deep and get into financial wellness—how you, as a woman, can be made whole when you get your ducks in a row. It is our time, ladies! So, I welcome our guest today, Dalene Higgins. Welcome, welcome, Dalene!
Dalene Higgins (01:03):
Thank you! I’m excited to share my knowledge and my experiences.
Odiva Vasell (01:08):
Yes! Let’s get right into it. For a person that is starting out—just starting to manage their finances—maybe they’ve been afraid to look at them, and I can understand that, but they are determined now. This is the time. What would be the first step or steps to take on that journey?
Dalene Higgins (01:35):
Yes, okay. So, there are a couple of different approaches, but they follow the same two steps, and it depends on who you are and how you feel.
If you’ve been burying your head in the sand for a while—which is not uncommon—and you’re entering into it, sometimes, to ease that process of looking at your numbers, you need to really jump ahead and think about what you want in the future. Why? Why is it that you’re now determined to make this change, and for what reason?
I don’t want the answer to be, “Well, I need to save more, and I need to pay down debt.” No, I want it to be bigger than that. I want it to be something that you create because, really, our lives—all of our lives—are happening because of money. So, really getting clear on that is important.
I always work with clients, and financial clarity is so very important. By doing this, you create your vision, create a goal, create what you want to happen. You know, 20 years down the road, that helps us really start grounding into what we want and our desires. It keeps us motivated and consistent so that when you go back to digging into the numbers, you understand a little bit more about what you want to happen.
Instead of approaching it with blame, shame, or embarrassment—which is why you’ve had your head buried in the sand and have been avoiding your finances—many times, it’s like, “Ah, I’m embarrassed by what I have,” or, “Oh, I just can’t do this,” or something like that. Once you get to the point of knowing what you want, coming back to the numbers means making sure you lose the shame and the judgment. Just look at the numbers. How are these numbers going to get you to where you already want to be?
Some people are really just ready to dive into the numbers, and that’s great—but don’t ignore the vision, the clarity, the dream. And I really like to use that word dream because I don’t want you to keep holding yourself back or thinking small. “Well, I just need to have this,” or, “I just need to have that.” No! I want you to go big and go bold because once you do, you will make anything happen.
So, it’s very important to ground yourself that way and then make the numbers roll into making that happen for you.
Odiva Vasell (04:01):
Wonderful! Grounding yourself first by having this big dream and always looking at it.
So, you did talk about the two types of people: the person that is burying their head in the sand because of shame, guilt, and judgment over what they do and don’t have, and then there’s the other person that likes to get into the numbers but is only looking at what’s happening in the next couple of months—whether they have enough to pay off some debt or something in the near future.
But having this big dream pulls us. So, is that the only step? Is that one step, or is that broken into two parts?
Dalene Higgins (04:46):
So, as you have your vision, as you have your dream, you know there are going to be challenges and hurdles along the way. So, what is it that you need to get out of the way? Whether that is debt, being more financially stable—when I say that, that means being ready for anything that can happen. You’ve got to be prepared, or it will derail your attempts at your goal.
Taking that vision and kind of then coming back to reality—and I say that loosely—because then I want you to define: What are the steps to get to your dream? What do you need to do to clear the path? And it can be, “Alright, I’ve got to, you know—ideally— not pay off debt until you have some savings that will take care of emergencies.”
A lot of individuals get so caught up in just wanting to get rid of debt, which I understand—it is a weight. But if you have not prepared for, you know, anything emergency-wise, you’re going to go into debt again. That is just a vicious cycle. So, getting yourself stable is the first goal.
And you get to define this—what is stable to you? Being able to handle, you know, if you own a home, a roof needing to be replaced, your air conditioner going out, or anything of the like. If you’re renting, maybe it’s that the rent is going to go up, and you’re just ready and prepared for those increases because that’s what’s truly going to happen.
So, be aware of those things that are going to have an immediate impact on you right now and just plan for those. Once you have that stability, then take your steps to move ahead. What is it that you’re wanting to do?
On my journey, I did a short-term goal and a long-term goal. Now, you don’t have to have that, but what I did was, I was focused. I was focused on what we were doing as a family. In the short term, we were buying recreational property. We were spending time there, riding all of the ATVs (All-Terrain Vehicles), and things like that. But then, I was also planning to retire and putting money there.
It gave me that balance of now and in the future, which is the second key piece that you want to build in—making sure that you’re enjoying money now but not ignoring what you want down the road. I know a lot of people are like, “I just won’t live that long.” But what if you do? And I hate that—what if you do, right?
I have an aunt and uncle who have well outlived their other siblings, and they’re still living on their own. They’re almost 100, and I’m sure they never thought they would be at that point. So just don’t ignore now or the future.
Odiva Vasell (07:29):
Wow, okay. So, there is a lot to unpack with that.
Some of the things I hear you saying are that actually planning for emergencies is a key factor. Financial setbacks could hit us at any point in time, but alongside that, you’re also saying that it’s okay to enjoy some of the money now.
How does that look for someone who’s got this big debt and thinks, “Okay, I’m so scared. I just want to pay off the debt and get that out of the way”? What does it look like to be able to actually enjoy life a little bit and also plan for other emergencies while taking care of the debt?
Saving is a Game—Make it Fun
Dalene Higgins (08:17):
Yeah, so, you know, really getting clear on how quickly you’re able to get out of debt—but I don’t think you can deny yourself because that is not sustainable.
So, you know, really thinking about what you can do and what will help you keep moving forward. I love to work with my clients, and we build what I call boundaries. Boundaries can exist in many different places with your money.
As you’re coming into this and as you’ve created stability, now you’re wanting to pay off debt plus enjoy—you’ve got to create a percentage of the money that you have. How much is going to go to both? If you’re somebody that’s like, “I just really want this debt out of the way,” maybe you choose a 75% instead of a 50-50—75/25. And it doesn’t even need to be those numbers, but getting clear on how you are going to support yourself.
And then, as you pay off the debt, are you going to keep rolling all of that forward, or do you want some of that to go to a future goal? Just really thinking about balance through your entire journey so that it can be sustainable.
To sit at home, not do anything, just to get out of debt can be really, really rough. I worked with a client—he came to me upside down. He is one of the rare few that, when I first worked with him, I cut stuff out of his budget. I don’t normally do that with clients because that is not sustainable.
But for him, we needed to stop the debt, and we created a budget that was sustainable because we left one piece of fun in it. For him, he got to choose what that was. He cut back to really not much enjoyment, except for this one piece.
And he sustained it for three months, did not increase his debt, and was able to move forward. So, really getting clear on a plan in that regard is so important—to still keep your element of fun. That will keep you motivated and consistent.
Odiva Vasell (10:19):
Like, so what I hear is planning and percentages. I like that because it doesn’t have to be all or nothing—balancing it out to 15%, 50%, 75%, however is comfortable for you to still pay off the debt but still have some type of balance. That is good!
I actually haven’t heard that before—balancing it all. And tell me a little bit about if you had any clients that the rug just got pulled out from under them. Maybe they went through a divorce, or a kid—you know, somebody got sick in the family. What happens then when, I guess, your emotional state is not where it should be, so your finances are going haywire?
How do we bring that all back in?
Dalene Higgins (11:21):
Yeah, so I worked with several clients who have been post-divorce—you know, six months up to two years. But their situation was all very similar. They were still caught up in either the number or the value of money that they were having, and because they didn’t have that, they thought they weren’t worth anything any longer.
And so, really separating yourself from the worth of what you now have and just creating something that is you—you know, you get to do this all on your own. And so, really helping clients understand what it is they have and who they are.
I had one client who was stifling their career promotion because of their tie to this—you know—money and self-worth. And so, once that was removed, they were able to then start pursuing career promotions, which obviously is going to increase your income, which is going to make things easier and better.
So really reach down. As you know, if it’s been real recent, it’s gonna take some time because those wounds are fresh and new. And don’t disregard that you feel that way, but recognize, as you’re trying to move ahead, that it has nothing to do with your worth.
The money you have will get you to where you wanna go—maybe a little bit slower, but you will still get to where you want to go, and you’ll find ways of doing that as long as you take yourself along on the journey. Don’t leave yourself back because you’re still tied to it. You know, take yourself along on the journey as well.
Odiva Vasell (12:57):
Oh, brilliant! So it’s, you know, there are wounds that have to be healed, but this is a journey, and you’re going step by step forward, still toward the vision that you set up for yourself.
And you talked about managing money day to day. What does that look like for someone who’s had this extreme loss of money or financial setback?
Dalene Higgins (13:30):
You can. So, to the individual that is in this situation or feels in this situation, really start looking at what you’re spending on. Really start thinking about it from a value perspective. What do you value in life? And then, do those expenses line up with it?
I recently worked with a client who, when she came to work with me, she said, “I don’t wanna miss out on all of my fun. In my family, we have fun, we do all of these things, and I don’t wanna miss out.”
And I said, “Okay, great.” So as we worked through the values exercises within the signature program, she realized that she was not spending enough on her. She thought she was, but because she wasn’t budgeting, she determined that she was not—she was not spending in the areas that she truly valued.
So, if that is you, as you’re coming into this, ask yourself: What is it that I still value and hold dear to my heart? Support those, and then the others can kind of find their own home—whether it’s a smaller amount, or disappears, or whatever. But let it naturally happen as you experience what you truly value as an individual in life—not just with money, but in life.
You know, do you value spending time with your family, creating these experiences? Or what is it that you spend your money on?
I had another client—she was post-divorce after being married for 40 years. And she said, “I donate money. I donate money, and I don’t want to, you know, not have that opportunity.”
And I said, “Okay, then that’s top of your list.”
So, really recognizing what is something that makes you go, “I don’t wanna stop doing this,” and really leaning into that while looking at the others with a little bit more grace—maybe they can drop down or pause.
I always love to share a pause and reduce. Just like I said earlier—and you said the words all or nothing—it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. What about pausing? What about reducing? What about really reflecting and thinking: Is this really building me up in the values of my life?
Odiva Vasell (15:39):
Wow! So getting that clarity on the values of your life is very important. And another thing that I’ve heard you say is self-worth and how that is tied into this whole money mindset and financial instability. Tell me more about that.
Financial Independence Comes from Awareness, Not Just Income
Dalene Higgins (16:00):
Yeah, so, you know, a lot of people are like, “Well, I can’t do anything because I don’t have enough money,” and they won’t even try. And so, you know, really kind of removing yourself from that—you’re still the same person. You were married, or whatever has happened that has taken that money away from you, you’re still the same person. None of those experiences, that life you lived, has gone away.
So you’ve just got to take it that you are this person with this new money, and you are going to make it work for you. And then you can explore increasing your income and going ahead and making more money that way. But our worth is really not tied to the dollar. We are worth so much more.
I think we get caught up in social perspectives of what people think is wealthy. And I think if we can come back to ourselves—if we’re feeling like this worth—come back and find out what wealth really is. What is financial success to you? What does that truly mean?
And really, be hard on yourself. I want to say that—like, really get real with yourself. I was just visiting my sister a couple of months ago and having a conversation with my brother-in-law, who does really well and has done really well. He’s retired now, and he spends his money on cars. So he drives a newer car and keeps it for a short amount of time.
I buy used cars, and I drive them for a very, very long time because I don’t want to spend my money there. But he’s like, “But I love new cars!” And so, recognizing that and getting real with yourself—like, what do you truly want? And just because, you know, like with him, he retired and is not getting a paycheck, does his worth go away? No!
So really, what is financial success to you? What would make you feel like you’re the richest person in the world? Not look like it to other people, right? What would make you feel like you’re the richest person in the world?
Odiva Vasell (18:03):
Oh! I love that question, and I’ll just repeat that—what would make you feel like you’re the richest person in the world?
And I’ve even noticed that as I’ve been going on my money mindset and financial abundance journey, some of the things that I do are what make me feel like the richest person in the world. There are a number of things I’m still exploring, but being out in nature—you know, people will pay thousands of dollars just to go to a famous mountain in a famous city.
And if I can do that here and enjoy it just as much, maybe even more, because I don’t have to worry about the plane ride and the baggage claim—it’s those little things that fill us up.
And I understand what you’re talking about—creating your inner value and understanding what is valuable for you, whether it’s spending time with your family or even giving yourself that “me” time. That’s—yeah, that’s so, so true!
I can’t emphasize enough how we need to separate ourselves from our money and our worth.
How does that happen, especially for women, that we tie ourselves to our financial statement? And I’m thinking of entrepreneurs especially—oh, you know, you’re just starting out, and the business is not turning a profit yet.
How does that play a role in the mindset of, “Oh no, I’m not successful. I’m failing. I’m not worthy enough”? How does that happen?
Dalene Higgins (20:07):
Yeah, so go back to your childhood when, you know, your class was going out. You’re gonna play ball of some sort—it’s a class activity, right? You have to pick teams. Do you remember that process of picking teams? And I feel like sometimes we put ourselves in that same situation with entrepreneurship. You know, “Okay, well, they didn’t pick my team,” you know, “and they didn’t pick me in this,” instead of realizing that we can be an asset to those who essentially will find us.
So I think that’s where we get started. It’s like, “Okay, well, nobody’s picking me. Nobody’s picking me.” Well, have enough people seen you? You know, are enough people seeing you and hearing you? And keep dialing into that because you have something to deliver.
You know, I’ve only been on my entrepreneur journey for two years since I retired after 32 years in the workforce. And I did come in, I think, with an advantage because years and years ago, I was doing taxes on the side. And at that time, I knew the IRS would let you take, easily, without question, three years of a loss in a business. So as I headed in, I’m like, “Well, it’s gonna take at least three years,” whereas other people are like, “Why have I not done anything in a year?”
And so I think it just goes back to the fact that we want to be picked and that until we’re, you know, chosen—until we have that, you know, purchase, that buy, that client—we aren’t worth anything. And that’s not true. If you didn’t have something to deliver, you wouldn’t be in business.
So, you know, going back to that sense of “I have something, and I’m ready to deliver it,” I think I see a lot of entrepreneur women not valuing their services high enough. They get caught up in the “Well, what will somebody pay me? What do they think that I’m worth?” instead of just owning it and just saying, “You know what? I know a lot.”
To take yourself on that journey by yourself may be hard, so maybe you have a close friend or family member that you can go to and say, “Hey, what do you know about what I used to do 10 years ago?” or something. My husband will do this to me. He’ll remind me, “Well, remember you did this, and this, and this, and this.” And I’m like, “Yeah, but that’s no big deal now.” Because, you know, it is no big deal after we’ve mastered a task—it’s no big deal.
So have somebody walk you through all the things that you’ve done. Honestly, that helps me. It helps remind me of who I am and how I can serve somebody. I think that’s what I’m trying to say—go get all of those little things. Be built up by somebody. You have to be built up by somebody. I think that’s just the way we work, right?
So make sure somebody who cares about you, who is close to you, builds you up. And now you go forward saying, “I am going to serve somebody—the next person that comes to work with me—with all of these things, and I am worth this much.”
I think that will kind of help for the most part, right? There are still struggles, there are still challenges that we face every day, but I hope that kind of helps them.
Odiva Vasell (23:26):
Wonderful! Taking a moment to just build yourself up or having someone in your corner that can build you up—because it’s so easy to forget all that you’ve accomplished—and going through the learning process of being an entrepreneur, you’re not where you started. So that in itself is an accomplishment to be applauded.
So, I’d like to hear now more about your journey financially. How did you—you’re a wealth of knowledge—how did you get to be this kind of guru that elevates us?
Dalene Higgins: (24:08)
Yes. So, as I said before, I had a career for 32 years. I was a support personnel for law enforcement officials, and halfway through my 32-year journey, I switched agencies. I thought, Okay, well, I can do another 17 years here. Then I quickly did the math and realized I only had to— to be able to take advantage of my pension— I only had to put in 13 more years.
Now, 13 years isn’t very long on a money journey, and so that was kind of my aha moment. I’m like, I have got to get all my ducks in a row. I have got to be prepared because, if I want to retire in 13 years, I want to be able to have that door open. So that is how I started my journey. I was about 35, my daughter was still young, and we still had many things we wanted to do. So, it wasn’t like I was, you know, Okay, just jump right in.
Another thing— even though I did have a pension, I took a 40% cut in pay when I walked away from my job. That is how I started dialing into my finances. I am very passionate about budgeting. Call it whatever you want, though. If you hate the B word, then I want you to choose another word. It’s a guide. It’s a plan. It’s a map, you know? Get creative and call it something that you really like. I was on another interview, and she said, Mine is a conscious spending plan. I’m like, I love it! Mine is just a budget— always has been a budget, you know?
But really, that’s how I did it. I just got super focused. I was like, Okay, how can I be better? How can I make sure I’m staying on top of stuff? How can I make sure I’m saving? And what I alluded to earlier— with the short-term goal and the long-term goal— that’s where I got my focus. Honestly, that fear of missing out? I did not have it anymore because I knew what I wanted.
You know, they’d be like, Oh hey, I’m gonna go get the newest thing, the newest toy, the newest whatever. And I’m like, Great! Good for you. But you wanna know what I’m doing over here? So, that’s why I say— get yourself grounded. Because I realized that once I did, I could start spending time in my numbers. I could start dialing down.
We had several financial events happen— I shouldn’t say several, we had like two or three major events— where my budget saved us. Being able to know where to pause, where to reduce for moments as we got our feet back underneath us, was huge in being able to weather those storms and move forward. So, I really get passionate about budgeting.
I believe budgets also play a huge role in business. So, if you are not budgeting, you definitely need to be. I don’t know that you want to change that B word in business— it’s very, very important. And, you know, I did that. That’s what I did for my last 15 years— I helped law enforcement officials learn to budget.
You know, because we had to create budgets every single year. They knew what they wanted. I was the liaison, supporting it and teaching them how to do that and build that. So, budgets are powerful. Budgets will create whatever it is that you want.
Odiva Vasell: (27:31)
Yeah, and as you’re speaking, I am thinking of having dual budgets— one for the business and one for personal finances. Because a lot of times, everything gets sucked into the business, and then there is no me. I become the business, and that can lead to poor self-worth as well.
But I’d like to know more about how we can make this fun. I still like the word budget, but how can we make this fun?
And how about your kids? How did you start with educating them about financial literacy and making it fun? Is there a reward system? How do we do it?
Empowering Financial Conversations Start at Home
Dalene Higgins: (28:15)
Alright, so I wanna tackle how I taught my daughter. When I started financial coaching, I’m like, “How did I teach you?” And I realized that I taught her in small moments all the way along from like age—well, I remember, I think she was about six.
I made a stop at the ATM for cash, you know, pulled out some cash. She’s like, “Can I see the money?” And I’m like, “Yes.” So, not denying your children those moments with money, or when they ask you a question—don’t disregard it. If you have the time, really take that curiosity and spend just a moment because to sit down with them and, you know, teach them is never going to happen.
So, she’s 26 now and has gone through college, you know, had a lot of friends. She will call me so many times a year and say, “Mom, how come my friends don’t know about this and that—whatever it is? How come they don’t know what a loan is or how to do a loan?” And it’s not that I sat her down and checked off everything on a list. I just taught her and shared with her and was open with her.
But I know that was reflective because that’s what my mom did. You know, I would ask, she would tell, she would show. She did her bills out in the open. So really, not having that closed door with your finances—I know that can be difficult because a lot of women I’ve talked to, they’re like, “I was told we didn’t have money.”
And I said, “Oh, my mom never said that.” Although now, in hindsight, I know we didn’t have a lot of money, but she never said that. I said, “There are other ways to share with your children that money is limited and teaching them that there are special choices to be made with money.” You know, really leaning into that aspect can really help them to grow.
So now, how can you make money fun? This is what I did on my journey—one of the things I did on my journey—and I encourage people many, many times. I did a savings challenge. It’s the 1% savings challenge. It’s not what I developed; I came across it through my growth journey, my reading, all of my learning.
You total up your savings, divide it by your income, and it’ll give you a percentage. Hopefully, people can do that quick little equation. If you—you’ll get a decimal point, you wanna move it over two places, and there’s your percent. So, you might be at 5%, you might be at 10%—you know, wherever you are, it does not matter. But you want to have that number.
So, say you’re at 5%. I want you to increase that by 1% this year—or, I mean, this month. I want you to do it again next month. I want you to do it again the next month.
Now, think about 1%. 1% is small, but compounding, you know, it’s going to build up. And so, keep doing that wherever you put it, whether it’s in your liquid savings or your retirement savings. Wherever it is, it does not matter, because they all work together, and it’ll compound.
And all of a sudden, you’ll go, “Oh, it’s really tight.” Pause. Pause, and I want you to note that in three, four, five months—whatever it is—you will start that challenge over again. I did that several times on my journey.
Now, my journey was 15 years long. I probably did it three or four times. So honestly, it’s not something that you can continue on forever, but it challenges you, it pushes you. Plus, it’s a fun game, right? “Okay, I did 3% last time; maybe I can do 5% this time.”
But take it in 1% increments, because you’re not gonna feel it for a while. And then, you—I promise—you will feel it eventually. And then, just pause. Let your finances kind of come back to, you know, a really nice, natural state and rhythm. And you’re okay with it, whether, you know, you’re getting more money coming in.
And then, start increasing it again. I went from—I believe—I went from 12% to 22% through those challenges. So, huge, huge, huge.
Odiva Vasell: (32:26)
Huge and very practical. Thank you! It’s like being your own bank, which is brilliant, because the banks aren’t gonna do it for us anymore. They’re not giving us that interest or that increase over time.
So, if you are able to do that with your own money—just putting that small amount in and then continually compounding it—ah!
Dalene Higgins: (32:49)
Yes!
Odiva Vasell: (32:51)
Back to school—oh my goodness! You are a wealth of knowledge, and I just wanna thank you for joining us today. And yeah, just—thank you for sharing so many practical tips that we can really get started on today.
Yes, thank you so much!
Dalene Higgins: (33:14)
Thank you.
[music]
Conclusion
Building a strong financial future doesn’t happen overnight, but small, intentional steps can make a big difference. By having open conversations about money, making saving a fun challenge, and continuously learning about financial management, we set ourselves and our families up for success. Financial independence isn’t just about how much we earn—it’s about how well we manage what we have. Start today, one step at a time, and watch your confidence and savings grow.