Interview with Beverley Kotey
In this episode, we will uncover 3 keys to:
- Black women’s self-care resilience amid societal pressures and diverse roles.
- Challenging stereotypes, promoting emotional well-being, and setting boundaries.
- Embracing workplace diversity and inclusion to unlock black women’s talent for mutual success.
Podcast Transcription
Episode 9: Beverley Kotey, Pilates expert & founder of the “The Black Women’s Wellbeing Circle”
Intro
Odiva Vasell: (00:00)
Are you looking for ways to take control of your well-being while maintaining your career success and overcoming the barriers that hold you back? Well, my next guest, Miss Beverley Kotey, is going to tell you just how she helps women do that. She is the founder of the Black Women’s Well-being Circle, and she is just going to let you know how special you are and how she can especially help you achieve that balance.
Hello, so we are here today with Beverly Kotey, and she is from the Black Women’s Well-being Circle. We’re going to find out a little bit more today about what that is and how you can learn more and even join for your own well-being. So, this is exciting, and I’m so happy to have you here today, Beverly. How are you today?
Beverley Kotey: (01:20)
Thank you. I’m great, thank you. Thank you for having me. It’s really exciting to get to have a chat with you.
Odiva Vasell: (01:28)
Yes, you have a very special and unique mission and wellness. It’s all combined with wellness, which a lot of us need but have been neglecting.
Beverley Kotey: (01:41)
Yes.
Odiva Vasell: (01:42)
So how did you start this journey as an entrepreneur? How did you come up with this type of business?
Black women’s self-care resilience amid societal pressures and diverse roles.
Beverley Kotey: (01:52)
I have been working actually my very… I came to Pilates teaching and sort of well-being into, yeah, and sort of really loved making people feel well during a class. I’d make people like sort of torture people, but by the end of the class, they’d feel great. It’s lovely, it’s wonderful. I came to that a very, very long journey. I, when I finished University a thousand years ago, I went into political lobbying, so I’ve had a very torturous journey. Got into well-being through politics and then decided that I wanted to broaden things out, you know, explore of it. Then we had 2020. Um, sitting around in lockdowns, of course, we had the murder of George Floyd, which made me start looking at things in a different way, uh, exploring and listening, listening to people’s experiences much more. I’ve grown up and lived my life in London in a very particular way. My experiences have been very particular, so I was able, in that period where, you know, the sort of racial justice movement found a voice, I was able in that period to start listening and realized there were some needs out there. So I started a process of getting in touch with black professional women and just interviewing them, just, just, just exploring what life is like, and there was some real eye-opening. Uh, some of our conversations were amazing, some things were infuriating, their experiences, and some things really quite heartening. So it’s from talking to these wonderful women, um, that I kind of realized there was a need to provide some sort of support. Um, so they are fantastic, they have all the qualifications you can imagine, everything, they’re in lots of different industries, they’re talented, they’re skilled. Um, but unfortunately, the two issues that kind of affect them affect them by being black and being female. Incredibly, this is not just, uh, it’s not just restricted to one society, one nationality. It’s across the board, it’s here in the UK, it’s in the US. I hadn’t spoken to any Canadian ladies, but I’m gonna bet Canada, France, it’s, you know, it’s everywhere. So that’s, yeah, that’s kind of how I came to my current mission.
Odiva Vasell: (04:47)
Oh, and I applaud you for having this mission and your passion. Tell me more about your passion in this. What do you hope to achieve for these clients?
Beverley Kotey: (05:02)
I want to give them a space where they can be themselves, where they can vent if they need to. You can’t necessarily be yourself in your work environment. You’ve always got to keep a veneer. There’s, you know, there’s lots of stuff about bringing your whole self, but actually, the conversations I’ve had with some ladies, if they brought their whole selves, uh, we don’t get the same leeway that other people do. I, I know white middle-class, uh, men who come out with ridiculous, awful things, and people just gonna go, “Oh, that’s just him being… they are allowed to bring their whole selves, and when you pull them up on it, they’ll say, “Oh, it’s just banter, it’s just a joke.” So there’s a realization that these ladies can’t bring their whole selves to work necessarily. So I want to give them a space in which they can say, “You know what, this thing happened and it infuriated me this much,” and because I get it, they don’t have to explain the background.
Odiva Vasell: (06:11)
Right.
Beverley Kotey: (06:12)
They just have an opportunity to go blur, and I’m not going to question whether or not, well, they thought happened happened or not, no questions. It’s your experience, this is what you felt, this is accepted. I am completely accepting that and talk more about it, let out what you need to let out about it. This is the space for you to do that. So that’s sort of the root of, you know, if you can get stuff out, get stuff off your chest, problem share that kind of thing, that’s going to be like a massive bit of your self-care and a massive bit of your well-being just to be able to let it out.
Odiva Vasell: (06:52)
Oh, that is fantastic, yeah. Being able to just express feeling freely, what you’re feeling, what you’re thinking, what your experience was, without judgment, that’s huge. And without someone saying, “Did that really happen?” Yes, that’s beneficial. And of course, like maybe some people try to express this to a significant other or a family member who just says, “You need to change your job.” And after, I’m guessing, after working, you know, several decades and spending every penny on education and certification and being the best of the best to get there in a certain position, just walking away from that job is not always the answer that we are looking for.
Beverley Kotey: (07:45)
That’s a, I mean, again, some of these ladies have amazing support groups, you know, their partners, their families, their friends, whatever. But even then, some of them just kind of say, you know, I feel like almost like a burden having to offload to them constantly. Yeah, yeah, I had a conversation with one person who had a rather unpleasant experience at work and wasn’t able to leave it at work. Of course, you know, they were quieter and much more withdrawn at home. And they were telling me how actually the experience made them feel like they wanted to disengage, and it made me so sad because again, qualifications like you wouldn’t believe, expertise, experience, the stuff that you build over years and years and years of doing a role. And to get to the point where you think to yourself, and just really passionate about the work, really passionate about delivering, to get to the point where something within the environment of your workplace, of your career, makes you think, “I give up,” it’s just, it’s, it makes my blood boil. It’s infuriating that people, these ladies, have to be in this sort of situation. I’ve spoken to quite a few ladies who did leave, who have gone off to become consultants, which is fine. I wish, though, I wish for them that they had worked it up and said, “You know what, now I want to be a consultant,” rather than, “I’ve got a good payoff because of the issues that I was forced to raise, now I have to be a consultant.” Yeah, there’s, there’s, yeah, the difference.
Odiva Vasell: (09:42)
Yeah, that’s a huge difference. And it’s funny because I was watching a documentary not too long ago about young entrepreneurs, and yeah, I did notice that a young black woman, after so much time in a certain position, decided, you know what, I’m gonna leave this company. And I’ve noticed also some of the consultants, the business consultants, that are doing fabulous things in the industry, but they left because of the work environment, things that happen in the work environment. They decided they’ve had enough. And I always wonder because we say we’re breaking the glass ceiling, I wonder if they had stayed, would it help others to come along on that pathway, or is that just a fantasy? I don’t even know.
Beverley Kotey: (10:47)
I think it’s a good point, and I think it’s probably a mixed answer to that. Um, again, from some of the ladies I’ve spoken to and worked with, they all like the idea of being able to be that role model, to be able to help pull other people up. I spoke to one wonderful woman who managed to get into the role. She’s a director, and with great pride, she said to me, all of my team look like me. I think one, it was one, maybe one man, but she had got to a point where she could employ all the team members, and she deliberately, you know, within the bounds of what you can do with employment policy and proposal and stuff, but they all look like her. So she had this wonderful situation where she was able to give a hand up to talented women. It wasn’t about taking on people who didn’t have the qualifications, didn’t have the experience, but they looked like her. It was, she’s talented, she’s got the experience, she’s gonna be able to deliver, and also she’s going to fit into this group. So, you know, that’s, I think that’s the only person who I’ve heard say that she’s been able to do something like that. But it is hard. It is hard. I talk to people who have experienced getting to director level. They’re at board meetings and stuff, and there’s a lady who was saying how she, when she called a meeting, she’d have to brace herself before heading into the meeting if there were people who were not familiar with her attending the meeting because how do people perceive her? She has to, on occasions, explain that she’s not there to take the notes, it’s her meeting. So I think if you can stay and help other people along, that is wonderful, and that is great, and yes, you can be the role model, you can be the person who other ladies in the organization will look up to and go, “You know what, if she’s there, she’s heading for that board meeting, I could get there too.” But you need a lot of resilience, strength of character, and perseverance to get there. And for some people, as much as they’d love to be a role model for the community and stuff, they also have to put their well-being and their mental health first.
Odiva Vasell: (13:32)
Right, right, and that’s where you can handle the well-being. Yeah. And you just remember, I couldn’t even, the name has gone from me. One of my role models, the first black female entrepreneur.
Beverley Kotey: (13:52)
In the states? CJ Walker.
Odiva Vasell: (13:55)
Yes, yeah, CJ Walker. And because my role model is also Harriet Tubman, so that was the first thing that came to mind. So, um, I researched the story of CJ Walker and how she had a team of black women who started to build their own community and were making good income through her. Yeah, she employed them. Um, yeah, but at the same time, like that being the only solution to thriving in that kind of environment, it’s a little sad, but…
Beverley Kotey: (14:47)
It’s sad, yeah. The other way to look at it is, and my experiences of companies in the UK and British companies, and we have here a class system that still does exist in a way. Oh, we have private schools, so in the UK, there are schools that you pay to attend. We have a great state school system, but your parents might decide if they’re gonna pay a lot of money for you to attend, and there are different levels of a lot of money. There are the top-end, the famous top-end private schools, so like Eton, where our last prime minister went to. Our current prime minister also went to a top-end, big-paying school. And you look at these people, and when they get into roles, they recruit people who look like them, who have a similar background to them. You know, the idea of it being an old boys club, actually, it really is an old boys club. So there’s an extent to which I sort of think to myself, the lady who has employed people who look like her, she’s just doing what these guys have been doing for ages. People will employ people who make them feel comfortable at home, who get the jokes and this, that, and the other. This lady was just doing the exact same thing. You know, we’re asking for these guys who went to their privates, their public schools, and who were employing other people who also play golf and also follow the rugby and also they’re sending their kids to whatever other private school. We’re asking them to be diverse and take people like us into their spaces, which they should. But I had a mischievous smile on my face when this lady said what she had done because she’s playing them at their own game.
Odiva Vasell: (16:55)
Interesting, interesting. Good. So tell me more about your story if it can get a little personal here. What were you doing before you started this business, and what was your experience in black women’s well-being specifically?
Challenging stereotypes, promoting emotional well-being, and setting boundaries.
Beverley Kotey: (17:19)
To be honest, as I said earlier on, I had a real career meander, less of a journey, more of a meander, and my experience typically wasn’t typical. I finished university, went into internships in the Houses of Parliament, where, you know, basically government sits. And at the time, I was in my early 20s, and I would get my hair braided. At one point, I had it braided blue, blue and black, and I was wandering around Parliament with black and blue hair, thinking, “Yay, I’m… I’m, you know.” And it was very cool being in Parliament. And there were a few of us there, you know, there were loads of us young youngsters, sort of wandering around Parliament, doing little jobs here and there. And there were a few of us, and there was some ethnic diversity as well because, you know, it was the party I belonged to or the party I was working with. It was all about, so there were a few of us. That when you went to a reception, for instance, and it’s predominantly white people in the reception, if a waiter was coming over, waitress was coming over, and they were black, because there were so few of us in the room, you just kind of… It’s that little acknowledgment, no thing, and it was… You couldn’t… It was just the thing you did without realizing. Anyway, so I did that. I worked… I worked in spaces where I would go into meetings, and I was the only black woman in the room. I was the only young black woman in the room. And actually, it was okay. I look back on that, though, and realized that I wasn’t senior, and I wasn’t trying to be senior. Oh, these were my sort of entry-level, relatively low-level jobs. And on the whole, you know, I wasn’t… I kind of wasn’t bothering anyone, almost. Unlike the ladies I’m dealing with, I’m working with, they are people who are sort of mid-career and wanting to become department directors. They want to be at the board meetings. So it’s one of the… one of the reasons why all the listening work I’ve been doing had been such a revelation, because I… I stopped working in that area, you know, maybe… and I cannot remember, time flies, 10, 15 years ago, perhaps. I kind of moved away from there and started my journey towards well-being. So it struck me that had I stayed and had I then been trying to climb up the ladder, then I would have experienced the things that these ladies have experienced and are experiencing.
Odiva Vasell: (20:33)
Yes, that’s interesting, and now you, um, I asked you about your story, and, uh, you’re kind of reminding me of my background as an engineer. [Laughter] I started, um, which people say, “Oh no, I Asian, had someone first say, ‘Oh, you, yeah, no, no, no, you don’t look like an engineer.'” Like, um, like, “Yeah.” Um, yes, I have enjoyed my travel and my life in English teaching, but that was not where I started out from. That was a passport to the world. Yeah, but one thing I loved, and still do, though, was electronics. And as a little girl, I remember getting a radio as a gift, a toy radio, and taking it apart and having my parents confiscated because they thought people were picking things. And I got into a lot of trouble with every device that was in my home at that time, the VCR. I learned how to program it before my father did. And, okay, here’s this little kid trying to watch Care Bears and playing with adults’ gadgets. And so, I said I would go off to school and stop getting in trouble once I get my degree. And boy, what a journey that was. I went to, um, what used to be an old men’s school. So, yeah, it was definitely a part of the old boys’ club. But, um, there were a lot of international students there, so we definitely had a good mix of us, but very, very few women, except for other departments like architecture and, um, the not interior decorating, but, um, the engineering type of, um, decorating. It’ll come to me later. And I remember just trying to be heard in the class, asking questions, having the hand up, and, you know, being passed over. And I remember one of my instructors used to come in and say, “Hello, gentlemen,” every lesson. So these, and… And me, as a young woman, and I think this is the… the thing that sets us apart as we get older and get more mature, you’re like, “What do I do?” You’re like, “I feel that something is wrong here, but this is a person in the position, and I am just, you know, a freshman or a newbie in this environment. Who do I go to? What… What recourse do I take? I understand on this person for a grade.” Yeah, you know, you lose your voice in that type of environment. You don’t lose your identity, actually. Sometimes or… not sometimes, for me, it’s shaped my identity because it made me more in tune to injustice and fairness and inclusivity, which is why I have built the business that I have now. Because I really understand what it is like to be put on the back burner when you have so much talent to offer, yeah, which is a shame. And I think when we talk about economics here in the States or anywhere in the world, um, I worked for a long time in Japan, and a lot of those women who were… I worked in a large trading company as an English teacher, and in a large trading company, you kind of get to be high on the rock because you’re a foreigner, and they have something you need, so you’re in that position. You’re a kid to be in that position of authority. But what I learned is that the education system, men and women who are going through the same classes, getting the same degrees, gradually, she becomes a secretary, he becomes the manager. Now, get this. When you are a secretary of a high-level manager, you’re doing a lot of the work, if not all of the paperwork. He gets to socialize and make the decisions. So there is that… is such a untapped talent that is being put on the back burner because of, well, this is a cultural thing, um, hopefully changing. And I did get to meet one, uh, woman, uh, manager who was quite different from anybody I’ve ever met. And so she had to, you know, she had to take on that role as, “Hey, I’m going to be the… I don’t give a [ __ ], yeah,” and not conform. But apart from her, I… I look into the room in the secretary pool, and I said, “How much knowledge and talent is being, um, for… I don’t know the word for it, but I keep saying put on the back… part. It’s not being utilized fully. It’s a waste, yeah.
Beverley Kotey: (26:57)
It’s a waste.
Odiva Vasell: (26:59)
Wasted.
Beverley Kotey: (27:02)
It’s similar to the ladies who have to leave the companies. It strikes me that if you just gave them a better environment, the work, the productivity of these women, you know, these companies that lose them are losing so much more than just a name on a… I don’t know, an email list. They are losing people who are powerhouses. And if you’re in a company, you’re trying to get things done, you want your business to succeed, you want your government department to succeed. I spoke to someone who left government, you know, civil service roles because she had come to the concrete ceiling. She knew she was ambitious, she knew she wanted more, to do more, but she also knew that at that level, only one black woman, the beacon, but there were not going to be other roles, and she… Yeah, she ended up leaving, and it’s infuriating, because you want the brightest and the best in something like government department, civil service. If you’re a business that’s trying to, you know, increase your bottom line and stuff, why would you deliberately lose your talent? Why would you do that? Why would you lose people? And it’s, again, here in the UK, in the States, you look at the qualifications that black women have, and you see that there are times where it’s actually difficult for them to make the case to their company to invest in their further study, their master’s, their MBA. So they go find the money. They go do it themselves. They are that determined. And if you think about it, why would you not bend over backwards to keep someone who’s that ambitious and determined in your company, delivering for you? Okay, why would you not do that? Why… Why would… It’s like those secretaries. Yeah, it’s a waste, isn’t it?
Odiva Vasell: (29:29)
Keep your talent. That is something, too. Hopefully, this message gets out to the right ears and really starts people thinking about this area that they’ve never thought of or heard of or can relate to and haven’t had anyone like you to communicate with. So, in your coaching, how does Pilates come into the wellness circle?
Embracing workplace diversity and inclusion to unlock black women’s talent for mutual success.
Beverley Kotey: (29:59)
To be fair, so far, I haven’t taken anyone through their Pilates paces. But, you know what, if we had a session, if we had a program, and one of the things that came up was someone needed to move and to get the enjoyment of moving their body, to be able to help loosen them up and relax them and center them, then, yeah, I’d throw in some Pilates or do a lovely online session. And, yeah, the lovely children empowered. I
Odiva Vasell: (30:31)
I can honestly say I love Pilates because you can get a lot of work done in a short period of time before a busy work woman. And I have a class tomorrow. And, um, yeah, yeah. So, this well-being and you are talking to these women, and you are transforming their lives by this mission. And what is the transformation that they can hope to achieve after working with you?
Beverley Kotey: (31:12)
The idea is to be able to have points of clarity. So, our processes that we’ll get together will work out what the difficulties are that they’re experiencing. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time to unpick things. You’re so used to how things are; sometimes you just need to be able to step a step back and have someone else hold your hand and kind of look to see, “Okay, well, what’s this? And what’s this? And actually, how do you feel about that?” So we would do that. Then we put together a bit of a plan. So it might be that I’m working with a lady who just needs to spend more time with her self-care. So we’ll timetable things for her. We’ll ring-fence some self-care time so that she gets the opportunity to download and not be taking all the tension from work to home. And if she’s not taking attention from work to home, she’s a nicer, happier mother or partner or daughter or whatever it is. So it’s, you know, these things ripple through into the rest of our lives. And that’s, you know, I think the biggest thing would be able to create a situation where someone feels good. They can leave their troubles at work, even if they’re working from home, and close the laptop. You’re done, and you can just enjoy living.
Odiva Vasell: (32:43)
Yes, absolutely. Instead of disengaging and tearing yourself into two different pieces, you are fully engaging in life and feeling fulfilled and understanding that, “Okay, there are some things that might not change about work, but I can leave that at work and enjoy a full life.”
Beverley Kotey: (33:04)
Yeah, that’s… You sort of can’t ask for more than that. Someone being able to walk away and just kind of go, “Okay, I’m good now. Let me do some quality time with the people I love.”
Odiva Vasell: (33:22)
And we’ve spoken previously, and I’ve told you that the past couple of years have been a whole eye-opening for me in this whole self-care and wellness journey that I’m on. And the first step was awareness, being aware of some bad habits, being aware of my own feelings, like the young girl that was in engineering school. And I did graduate with my engineering degree, electrical engineering degree, and then I moved over to Japan to become an engineer and ended up being a teacher, which I also loved. But I wasn’t aware of my feelings well enough to actually tell people, “Hey, this is not okay.” I was always questioning myself, “Is this okay?” And then I’d tell somebody something, you know, that I didn’t feel right happened, and they would say, “Are you sure that happened in this country?” And I would say, “Um, kind of sure that it happened.” So, questioning myself, being able to just fully experience the human experience of, “Hey, this is how I feel. This is my journey. This is my awareness of self. And I’d like to make you aware, or if you’re not able to listen, that’s fine. But at least I know what to do, the steps that I need to do to rebuild and care for myself.”
Beverley Kotey: (35:05)
We have the strong black woman, and sometimes that can be damaging.
Odiva Vasell: (35:16)
Absolutely, and I will say that is the latest, okay? I just want to get in here that that is the biggest thing that has occurred to me in my self-awareness journey. The strong black woman meant, in previous generations, that we had to take it all on our backs. We had to take the whippings, so to speak, and it makes you stronger. I am now realizing that that is not the way it has to be. I can be me without bearing injustice or pain.
Beverley Kotey: (36:02)
You can ask for help. You can. It’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to draw boundaries and say, “You know what? I can’t take any more.” You know, it could be work. “I’m not going to take any more work on because these are my boundaries, this is the capacity I have that’s going to help me maintain my ability to live and work. It’s going to help me maintain my ability to go home on time and to care for myself.” We can do that kind of thing. We can say, “You know what? I need help.” It’s not just a case of we put our head down and we just get on with it, no matter what’s thrown at us. We can take everything that’s thrown at us and we just kind of go back to it. Actually, no, we’re allowed to say, “Stop.” And certainly here, the stats show that black women have more incidents of mental health issues, anxiety, depression, that sort of thing. Probably no coincidence that there is this idea of the strong black woman who’s running her family, doing work, and getting everything done. Just getting it all done. It’s probably no coincidence that anxiety and depression are the things that we are more prone to than our counterparts. So being able to say, “You know what? These are my boundaries, I will take time out, I will ask for help.” All of those things, those are a form of strength as well. Being able to say, “These are my boundaries” is a form of strength.
Odiva Vasell: (37:49)
Yes, even strength and vulnerability, strength in asking for help. Yes. So, I just want to thank you for joining me here today. This has been a lovely chat.
Beverley Kotey: (38:07)
I really enjoyed it.
Odiva Vasell: (38:10)
I will be posting links to your website and for people to book a call with you and reach out to you, just to start the first step on their awareness journey. How important self-care is, how important wellness is, and how special they are.
Beverley Kotey: (38:32)
Yes, they’re amazing. They are amazing, and they have to keep remembering. Maybe one of my things is to be their cheerleader and keep reminding them they are amazing and wonderful, and we need to protect them and help them protect themselves.
Odiva Vasell: (38:52)
Protect them and help them protect themselves. Thank you.
Beverley Kotey: (38:58)
It’s okay. It’s been lovely chatting. It’s been really, really. I could carry on for ages, but I think we’ve got to go.
Odiva Vasell: (39:04)
We will stay in touch, and as you grow your business, please keep me informed and updated.
Beverley Kotey: (39:14)
I will do. I will do. Thank you so much.
Odiva Vasell: (39:25)
Avoid burnout and create more balance with Beverly’s well-being checklist so that you can give more of yourself to the things that you love and enjoy and avoid the stress and burnout in your career. Just check the links, and I will be seeing you next time.
Conclusion
In closing, the conversation with Beverley Kotey underscores the need for a shift in our approach to success. Prioritizing well-being is not a sign of weakness but a path to empowerment. Setting boundaries, seeking support, and fostering a community of ambitious women are essential strategies for thriving in our careers while safeguarding our mental health. Whether you’re a professional black woman or anyone striving for success, remember that your well-being is a valuable asset. It’s time to redefine success by valuing your mental wellness.