Interview with Sandy Gee
Ever encountered a language barrier that hindered your confidence and goals? Meet Sandy Gee, an online English coach who arrived in the USA with minimal English skills a decade ago. Frustration and struggles marked her early days, especially in communicating with her daughter’s teachers. However, Sandy decided to conquer her fears and master the language. Now, she’s a global English teacher with her own company, dedicated to helping Chinese students and immigrants worldwide achieve English fluency for more fulfilling lives.
Sometimes, the most extraordinary journeys begin with the simplest of challenges. Sandy Gee’s journey is one such story—a powerful testament to resilience, determination, and the unwavering belief that one can turn adversity into an opportunity for transformation. In this narrative, we embark on a captivating exploration of Sandy Gee’s life, tracing her path from facing language struggles to her inspiring mission of empowering others. It’s a story that reminds us all that the path to empowerment often starts with a single step forward, even when faced with daunting linguistic obstacles.
In this episode, the three key learnings are:
- Consistency and Dedication in Learning.
- The Significance of Empathy and Support.
- The Role of Mindset and Self-Improvement.
Podcast Transcription
Episode 1: Sandy Gee – English Coach & founder of ‘The Global English Center’ for Chinese Immigrants
Intro
Odiva Vasell (00:05):
Welcome, welcome, ladies! I have an exciting treat for you today. I have someone who changed their life through language and created a business that is unbelievable and so, so powerful. So, I want you all to join me in welcoming Miss Sandy Gee. Welcome.
Sandy Gee (00:31):
So nice to see you here.
Odiva Vasell (00:39):
And Sandy, tell me how you got started in your business.
Consistency and Dedication in Learning.
Sandy Gee (00:41):
Okay, actually, that goes back to 10 years ago. I had just immigrated to the United States. I had a very hard time communicating with people because of my language. After I graduated from college in China, almost more than 15 years passed without using English. So, when I came here, I couldn’t understand almost anybody. I couldn’t understand my neighbors, and I couldn’t communicate with my daughter’s teacher.
Sandy Gee (01:16):
So, every day was just like a struggle. I didn’t know what to do. But one day, I felt like enough is enough. I need to do something to get this thing done. So, I set a goal. I practiced English six hours a day, at least. My English improved a lot. Then, I started to analyze the way maybe native speakers spoke, and that helped me understand them better. So, I started feeling confident enough to talk to people and solve problems by myself. So, that was a big breakthrough. I felt so independent, I’m free! And one day, my friend suggested, “Hey, Sandy, you can teach Chinese people English because you can speak both languages, right? That’s your advantage.” I thought that was a great idea because as a Chinese immigrant, I have gone through all the struggles and the challenges, right? I feel like I know how to improve listening and speaking quickly, and I’m bilingual. I can explain whatever questions people have right away. So, that’s really great. And if I can help them to improve their English, they can live an independent life just like I do. How wonderful it will be, right? So, in 2018, I started this business teaching Chinese people English.
Odiva Vasell (02:49):
Yes, yes, and as a former English teacher, you know how animated we get. So, yay, work that is so needed. There is so much shame that comes along with not being able to speak a language, and people don’t understand that just hearing people talk at you every day is not really going to help you learn how to speak that language.
Sandy Gee (03:24):
Exactly.
Odiva Vasell (03:26):
Yeah, and I’ve been in the room with English teachers who say, “Just go and watch this TV show and watch that TV show.” You know, even when I was working with students in teaching English, I said to them, “Would you tell me to watch your TV show and learn your language?” No way, because the language that’s used in TV is meant to be funny, dramatic, and kind of ridiculous for everyday speech. Because, you know, you asked me about, well, you’ve peeked at my profile, and you understand that I taught in Japan, and I would go to my Japanese tutor, and I would get something from a movie, and I would be like, “Can I use this?” And he would be like, “No.”
Sandy Gee (04:21):
That’s not what we really use every day, right?
Odiva Vasell (04:26):
That’s not how we really speak. But I just applaud you for being so courageous. Six hours a day.
Sandy Gee (04:34):
At least, yes.
Odiva Vasell (04:37):
At the least of study. And then you’re taking the torch for the Chinese people who are in that struggle. Wow, that’s beautiful. Tell us more.
Sandy Gee (04:52):
Yeah, so I know how hard it was, and then I understand all the Chinese people when they saw me in the past days, and they share the experience with me. How difficult it is to communicate with native speakers, how difficult they can solve the problems. So, I feel like this is what I should do, this is what I’m meant to do. I want to help them when I see them to conquer that barrier, the language barrier, and the effect they finally land their dream job or they get into a better college or university. Some of my students even found their English-speaking life partners. So, this is not just a language thing; this is a life-changing thing. So, I feel that momentum in my body, you know? When I talk about it, I feel my blood is flowing so fast. Yeah.
Odiva Vasell (06:00):
Let it flow, let it flow! Welcome that energy. Oh, wow. Let’s teach today, Sandy. Let’s teach.
Sandy Gee (06:10):
Of course, yeah.
Odiva Vasell (06:12):
People just, okay, some people think, “Oh, you’re a native speaker of a language, so you can teach a language.” That doesn’t make you a good teacher.
Sandy Gee (06:23):
I totally agree with you.
Odiva Vasell (06:24):
Understanding the struggle is key. Tell us more about your struggle.
Sandy Gee (06:26):
Okay, so for example, when I was in school, and then we learned when people ask you, “Hey, how are you?” There is an answer like “Fine, thank you.” That’s the pattern we learned; that’s cool. And then my neighbor asked me, “Hey, how are you?” I asked her, “How are you?” and I was waiting for “Fine, thank you, and you?” And she said, “I’m hanging in there.” What the hell, right? What does that mean? And one day, I said bye-bye to one of my daughter’s friends’ parents, and then she said, “Have a good one.” I didn’t even know what this “Have a good one” meant. What does that word? We didn’t learn that at school because it’s different things. So, that’s one thing, like expressions, like the way they speak. And also, the pronunciation, like “What are you doing?” But here, I can hear some people say, “What you doin’? What you doin’?” Right? So, there are a lot of things need to, kind of, like, study more and go deeper. And I summarize that, so when I teach my students, I can tell them right away, 20 rules American native speakers usually use in daily conversation, so they can easily improve their listening skills. And if we’re speaking the same thing, we have different ways to pronounce words, it’s different from what we learned at school.
Odiva Vasell (08:09):
Yeah, tremendously different. You know, I just want to take a moment to try and get people in America to put themselves in the place of a person because a lot of haven’t, a lot of people haven’t had that experience. I was fortunate enough to go and live in Japan. And one thing that I was just thinking about the other day was enunciation, not just pronunciation but enunciation. Because recently, I’ve been watching the movie Godzilla, it’s like a Godzilla marathon, and it’s in Japanese, and it’s in black and white. So it’s very traditional Japanese that they’re using, and they keep their mouth so tightly closed that the words come out a totally different way. And it was a real struggle for some, not all but some of my students that were just speaking in a traditional way, which is good, to enunciate the way English native speakers speak. So, for the first example, I would say, “Godzilla, Godzilla,” whereas they’re, like, keeping their mouth fairly closed, and in the movies, it’s like, “Gozira,” so it’s coming from here. It’s not so much opening the mouth, “Gotzla.”
Odiva Vasell (09:50):
And I remember having students that struggled with that. And so, when, this is what I want to say, is that when you go to their country and you try and speak their language, and you’re, like, it can sound a little ridiculous, and they could hear you coming from a mile away because you’re just, you know, opening your mouth so wide and kind of butchering the language, which is okay because that’s how you learn.
Mistakes are part of learning; talking to native speakers can help.
Sandy Gee (10:20):
Right, exactly. So, speaking of that, I feel like some people, some immigrants, they might feel so scared of speaking because they’re worried about, “Oh, what if I make any mistakes, grammar mistakes, pronunciation mistakes? What if a native speaker asks me, ‘Excuse me,’ and then if you’re like, ‘Maybe I shouldn’t say anything,’ right? That would be safer, right? But actually, this is not the way we learn. So, everybody, even native speakers, they make mistakes all the time, grammar mistakes, very common. So, I encourage my students, just say it. You are allowed to make mistakes. That’s how we learn, and nobody’s perfect, right? So, when you speak, when you make mistakes, when I notice that, I can help you correct that. So, at that point, you can make more improvement. So, this is how I communicate with them. Especially when we have an English Community every Saturday afternoon, and then I invite some native speakers, like students and adults, to join this community to help my students from different countries. So, they can practice, communicate with native speakers to improve their listening and speaking. When they make any mistakes, native speakers just tell them politely, “Here is the way we say that,” so they can right away learn.
Odiva Vasell (11:48):
Yes, and I mean the brain gets harder and harder the older you get. Exactly. There are so many aspects of this. Like children are able to learn two and three languages at a time, but parents are afraid, “Oh my goodness, they’re making mistakes. They’re not going to learn it.” No, I mean that’s how a lot of cultures have been lost because the parents said, “Okay, you’re in this country, you learn English, and we’ll put our native language aside.” But children, they can absorb it all, and they make those mistakes and they learn from those mistakes.
Sandy Gee (12:26):
Right. It’s so easy for children to pick up a language. But for adults, I have a lot of Chinese immigrants who are adults. But what we do is we just use limited time because they are busy, usually they have that job, right? So we use limited time, and then I just teach them what they need in their daily life. The purpose is different. Their goal is not to become an English teacher; their goal is to use English to solve everyday problems. So they tell me, “This is what I want to learn,” so I teach that part. Also, every day, if they have any sentences they want to know how to say in English, they send me those sentences, and I right away tell them how to say and also give them a recording they can practice with. So this is how they learn every day.
Odiva Vasell (13:20):
And I wanted to stress to native speakers, when someone asks you, “How do you say this?” and you give them an answer, give them one answer. Okay, don’t give them ten different ways. Whether it’s in Japan or, like, “Oh, you could say it like this, and you can say it like this, and you can say it like this.” That’s a lot of language to try and keep in your brain at one time. If somebody gives you their name and a few minutes later you’ve forgotten it, how do you think you’re going to remember a bunch of phrases that someone gives you at the same time? [Laughter]
Sandy Gee (13:59):
Exactly. I think I totally agree with you. One banana at a time. If they want to know a sentence in your language, just tell them one way to say it. Start from there. Once they practice and get used to it, maybe the smallest, shortest sentence is better because it’s easy to remember, right? So once they can use it, then you can tell them, “Actually, we have different ways to say that. Here are some choices.” But I usually tell them, you can actually separate what I teach you. One part is for understanding native speakers; you don’t have to remember word by word, you don’t even have to use it. The other part is what you really need to understand and be able to use in everyday conversation, which I want you to use. You need to practice a lot until you can speak without reading a piece of paper or listening to somebody’s voice, so you can do it by yourself. I always tell them, you can separate whatever I tell you. One part is to support understanding when people say that, you understand, that’s it. The other part, you practice a lot, and then you can finally say it, use it.
Odiva Vasell (15:21):
And let’s talk a little bit more about this shame because whether it be in business or in language learning, it’s a struggle. And especially for women, that’s why I have such a heart for women entrepreneurs because there’s so much shame on making a mistake and being judged.
Sandy Gee (15:47):
Yes, so much pressure around that. I think this is really something I’d like to talk about too because especially in China, Chinese culture in school, students kind of like not allowed to make any mistakes. When you make mistakes, you know the result is being punished. For example, if you write a word wrong, then the teacher might ask you, “Okay, go home and copy this word 50 times.” Or, you know, in the old days when I was in middle school, if students made any mistakes, they might get different punishments, which is even worse than that. Maybe go stand there for half an hour or stand in the very back of the classroom, so that kind of punishment really made you feel like, “I can’t make any mistakes, otherwise, I’ll be magnified the shame.” Wow, it’s really, really bad. But you know, after I came here, I learned a lot of different cultures, actually, because America is an international country. People from all over the world, and I feel like you’re allowed to make mistakes, right? And because of mistakes, that’s a real treasure of our life. We learn from that, just like, “No pain, no gain,” exactly. True. So once we make mistakes, we fall, we stand up, we know, “Oh, it hurts, next time wear pants, don’t wear shorts on this kind of ground,” right? So you learn from that. So why not? Nothing wrong with making mistakes.
Odiva Vasell (17:33):
Fantastic. And how did you build a business? What is the name of your business, and what were the first steps in creating this new business?
Sandy Gee (14:45):
Okay, cool, that’s a great question. My business is named Global English Center, and I know Chinese people are all over the world, and they’re explorers, so I feel like this is not a very limited business, it can be global. So that’s why I named it Global English Center to help people from different countries, but they are from China, they have the same origin, just like me. So that’s my original idea for my business. The first step, actually, I started in 2017. I spent two months preparing every unit, and then I had my friend, native speakers, go through all the units I created to make sure every single sentence is very authentic.
Odiva Vasell (18:47):
What an amazing woman! I mean, you’re so thorough, and you spend six hours just teaching yourself the language, minimum six hours teaching yourself a language, and now you’ve created these units, so well-prepared for them emotionally and physically, you know, mentally, all those parts that come into learning a language. That’s amazing.
Sandy Gee (19:17):
Yeah, I love them, and I want to see their progress as soon as possible because the most valuable thing is not the money, it’s the time, especially for adults. They need the time to do something very important. So I try to help them as soon as possible, as fast as I can, and give them the most efficient way to just do it, and then they can get it.
Odiva Vasell (19:46):
Yeah, I want to just take a moment and ask our listeners to close their eyes, you know, imagine you’re in bed, you had a great day, and you woke up one morning, and you went outside, let’s say it’s the Fourth of July, and there’s a big picnic, and now everybody around you is speaking Japanese. Yeah, how would you feel if you woke up one day and no one spoke your language, and you needed to get from point A to B? Would you hope that people would have some kindness and some understanding and just work with you while you slowly learn something that you’ve never learned before? And that’s what non-native speakers need. They need a little bit of empathy, a lot of empathy, and I applaud you for doing that, and I just really want people to take the time and put themselves in their shoes. We all want to make a better life for our children, so understand when someone comes and they take on that struggle of, “I’m not even speaking,” because there are many out there that I’ve met that don’t even get out of the house. I mean, why would you if you feel like everybody’s having a good time except you? It can be so disempowering, but making those mistakes, as you said, and getting a hold of a tutor like Sandy to guide you along can be freeing because not having a voice is like taking away part of your personality, your individuality, the respect that you deserve as a human being.
Be kind and helpful to non-native speakers in unfamiliar environments.
Sandy Gee (22:14):
I totally get it. I mean, when you asked us to imagine that situation when you wake up, and then nobody speaks your native language, I got something actually, that’s gold. Thank you so much. What I got is, “Be patient, be patient, be patient.” Whenever you see a non-native speaker on the street, if they ask you any questions, if you are struggling to talk to a native speaker, you can stand by and then just gently ask them, “Do you need help? Do you want me to translate that for you, please?” Just a little question or give them a little hand. You will feel so loved.
Odiva Vasell (23:05):
Yeah, yeah, it’s a huge thing, and a lot of us can be sheltered. We go to travel spots, and the waiter or somebody who speaks to us because I also worked in Italy, and they speak to us in broken Italian, or we speak in broken Italian to the waiter, and he’s just very patient, like, “Hey, hey, it’s okay, I know you want pizza, so it’s fine.” But just imagine that you step out of that sheltered tourism environment, and now you have to find your way back to the hotel without language. It’s scary. So when you see someone doing that and coming to America for a better life, applaud them and just take a moment to hold space for them.
Sandy Gee (24:06):
Right, care.
The Significance of Empathy and Support.
Odiva Vasell (24:10):
Yeah. And so you are courageous and phenomenal, Sandy Gee.
Sandy Gee (24:18):
And yeah, some of my students, you know, they went to, you know, adult school, which is free, right? She told me she went to adult school for eight years and didn’t make too much progress from that. And then after one month, she had the training with me, she cried just like a baby. She said, “I never thought I could speak English this fluently.”
Odiva Vasell (24:47):
Oof, you hit on something big. What I saw in a lot of language schools that I worked with, they tried to make you feel as if there is something wrong with you, keep you paying for lessons again and again, and you’re not making progress. And you have this wonderful, gorgeous salesperson that will tell you, “Just a few more packages, or a few more months, and you’ll get there.” And then you get in the class, and you don’t make that progress, and you think it’s me.
Sandy Gee (25:29):
It’s my problem, right?
Odiva Vasell (25:31):
Right, it’s not.
Consistent practice and repetition are the keys to language fluency and fluent speaking.
Sandy Gee (25:34):
Actually, you know, I want to share a very quick game I played with my students, very, very interesting. And, you know, whenever I have the interview with them, the first interview, I would always play one game with them, just a couple of seconds. I said, “Okay, so would you like to tell me, um, if you see somebody first time you meet them, and then you ask their name, right? What would you say? You’ll say, ‘What’s your name?’ right?” So as I asked them the second question, “Okay, now you want to ask her mom’s name. How do you ask that?” And then they kind of think, “Translate, what’s your mom’s name, like that?” And then I’ll ask the third question, like, “Now you want to ask her grandfather’s name.” So that question will take even longer. Why? So I asked them, “Why do you think it’s like this? Three questions, completely different, or it’s just so hard to say it in English?” And then they got it. They say, actually, because the first question, “What’s your name?” they already practiced, already used many times, 50 times, 100 times. That’s the key, actually. Language is not that hard if every, so I ask them, “Do you think it’s logical if we practice every sentence just like, ‘What’s your name?’ that every sentence should be as fluent as that sentence? Do you agree with me?” So they said, “Yes, yes.” And then even before they watched a lot of videos, but watching doesn’t mean you can speak fluently because it uses a different part of your body, right?
Odiva Vasell (27:16):
Yes, and that’s what I was thinking.
Sandy Gee (27:19):
Right. If you want to speak fluently, where should you train? Train your mouth all the time, right? That’s it, that’s very simple, that’s the key.
Odiva Vasell (27:31):
And you touched on, yeah, this is something I tried to explain to a lot of students and a lot of parents. Language speaking happens in a different part of the brain. So when your child is not speaking but she understands everything her grandparents are saying, she’s not being lazy, and you don’t want to jump on her and say, “You know, your grandparents, they might understand this, and they’re saying you’re being lazy, come on, just open up and speak.” That muscle has never been activated, and the more shame that family members unintentionally bring upon them by laughing, the more they’re going to shut down and be silent. So it’s a double-edged sword, coming to a different country and they learn this language so well, and then they go back and they try to interact with relatives, and they’re getting shamed again because they haven’t mastered that. So it’s really important to hold space for them and say, “Yeah, this is the pathway.”
Sandy Gee (28:40):
Yeah, it’s possible, and it’s not that hard, really, because I’ve already experienced the whole process. Speaking English fluently is not that hard, and as long as you do the work every day, just like break the big task into small pieces. That’s what I usually do because, you know, sometimes, like, “How much do I need to practice? How hard do I have to work to get to that point?” Okay, so just every day, practice 20 to 30 minutes, just keep speaking, and then you eventually get to that point. Even after 10 classes, you can see the big, big difference.
Odiva Vasell (29:25):
Okay. And so I’m guessing that you have big plans to expand your business. Tell me about those big plans.
Sandy Gee (29:34):
Okay, yes. So I feel like in the future, so the first goal for myself is about myself growing. Let’s start from there. I want to become a great English speaker so that I can help millions of Chinese immigrants improve their English and have a better life. So my business will never outgrow my self-development. So the first step is about myself improvement. So I want to, like, study more, grow more, do more, be more, become more, become a better person so I can help more people.
Odiva Vasell (30:19):
Self-improvement is key. It’s key to everything. It’s key to learning a language. It’s key to growing a business. It’s key to succeeding in relationships. It is a big part of it. And you are setting an example by being a role model for that because I understand what you’re saying. Learning a language is not difficult, like people say, “Oh, you learn Japanese, you speak Japanese, that’s very difficult.” No, it’s just a language. What is difficult is getting past the mindset of worrying about making mistakes or feeling shamed or being embarrassed or humiliated or outnumbered. Like, I gave the example where everybody is speaking and having a good time at the Fourth of July party, and you can’t interact with that, so you just want to run back inside the house.
The Role of Mindset and Self-Improvement.
Odiva Vasell (31:14):
The mindset piece is so key. My business now is helping women get confident on camera and show up and talk about their business and get more visibility, and they have to work through that mindset. Someone told them, as you said, “Stand in the corner because…”
Sandy Gee (31:39):
I help women to be more visible, and then they, you know, that’s very useful. I can share with whoever is watching this interview, I’d like to tell them, you know what, before I didn’t even use Facebook, and then after I learned, “Oh, actually, I can make some videos and post them on Facebook.” You know what, after I posted the first, just the first one in my life about my business, a mini-story about myself, and I got two new clients, one is from Poland, the other one is from China. So actually, this is very important. I thank you so much for helping women entrepreneurs to get more visibility so they can get better chances, better opportunities, and then grow their business. This is very, very important. It’s helpful. If you are watching this…
Odiva Vasell (32:39):
I couldn’t have said it better because we have so much to give, and right now is the age of showing up online if you want to promote your business and grow your business and connect with people, it’s so important. So we have so much to give, and I just want every woman in the world, like you said, global, to recognize that power within and activate it.
Sandy Gee (33:09):
You’re good enough. You deserve it. Yeah, trust yourself, and then you have been doing all you are doing for so many years. This is a time for you to shine.
Odiva Vasell (33:22):
Yes, thank you for joining me here today, and I look forward to connecting with you further, again and again, Sandy.
Sandy Gee (33:33):
Sure, if you need my help, just let me know, and I’d like to support you as well because we’re both sisters, and if we can help each other, support each other, then we can be stronger because we are not alone, right?
Odiva Vasell (33:48):
Stronger together, yes.
Sandy Gee (33:50):
Yes, thank you. [Music]